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1. 

   Jason Lee
   Member
   

   Ok, so I've been on a GITS binge for the past couple weeks. I watched both seasons in full and all three movies. In the past I've only seen eps here and there and just decided to watch them in their entirety.

   Overall, I loved it all. The only thing that I didn't really like is GITS Innocence (second movie). Also, GITS v2.0 is a freaking waste (compared to the original). Anyway, Innocence doesn't make much sense to me...and I would think that it would be horribly confusing for anybody who doesn't follow the series to understand.

   - There is no character development or back story (at least not enough for an outsider to pick up on).
   - I don't understand how it fits with the seasons or the other movies. It definitely comes after the first movie but before the first season (?). Togusa doesn't have a son, but Motoko is MIA (kinda leads into Solid State Society). I haven't read the manga so I don't know if it's following a different arc timeline or what.
   - I don't like the way Togusa and Aramaki are drawn/animated. Aramaki looks very old and fragile. In the series he's portrayed as a commanding war veteran despite his stature.
   - The setting seems out of place. Cyborg technology with cars from the 50s? In the series, it seems like the team has decent digs, but Batou lives in a dump apt in the movie.
   - It seems very different from the series and the other movies. The story focuses on Batou and Togusa and leaves out many others. Section 9 isn't really shown. Motoko is missing for most of the movie and when she does show it's just in the form of an AI hack (her cyborg body is the best part!). Although I do like the darker feel to the movie but it sticks out among the rest of the work.
   - Certain characters are left out entirely.
   - There is a ridiculous amount of philosophical/biblical quoting. Umm wtf? This in particular confused the crap of me.
   - 2D and 3D looks horribly awkward.
   - Weird first person fisheye views.

   I'm sure this movie was heavily discussed when it came out but if I were to post on another forum it would just be bringing up dead topics. Besides, this is the only anime forum I look at so I figured I'd post it here.

   If you have any comments I'm curious to hear them. Agree? Disagree?

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   Ann
   Key Master
   

   By coincidence, I also just started rewatching GITS: SAC lately, and watched Innocence a few weeks back. Haven't even heard of GITS 2.0 (looks like a remake of the first movie) until now.

   So the manga, GITS: SAC 1 + 2 + Solid State Society, and the first and second movie I think take place in alternate universes. So the timelines don't mesh necessarily, and the characters' personalities are totally different.

   I read the manga first (the volume 1 graphic novel) and thought it was fantastic. Although the characters are different in SAC, I ended up liking the TV anime series just as much. The major's personality is more "cool," and overall she comes off as more of a super bad-ass than in the manga where she has more of a "normal" kind of personality. Also the Tachikomas are awesome; whoever did their voices have got it exactly right. Anime-wise, SAC first season is my favorite. Great major cast and supporting characters, complex plots, and the character designs and animation quality are top notch. Only problems are:

   - The major needs pants. Seriously! I kept thinking that it would be so funny if only someone in the series would comment on her lack of pants.

   - The CG cars look super weird (they are also old models). Have you noticed that the wheels aren't even turning? Uh...

   So... Innocence. Overall I thought this movie was just okay, and kind of interesting to see once just for the way they put it together. They got TOO crazy with the artistry of it all for my tastes, so I have no real desire to buy it or rewatch it and it was sort of a soon-forgotten movie for me. Personally I think the main problem with it is that the Major is hands-down the best character in the series and she is just not there until the very end of this movie, so the story kind of just drags without a good main character to focus on. Batou is actually a great sidekick and Togusa a really good supporting character, but they are probably a bit too one-dimensional to be main characters. Batou was really angsty and solemn throughout, which didn't help. The visuals in the movie were sometimes amazing, but sometimes the CG looked really out of place, and some scenes were really just way too drawn out! There were several times where the weird chanty music started playing and it just zoomed in on some crazy CG rendered scene forever, and I just wondered what the point of it was and felt really impatient for the movie to get going again. Yeah, the cars were definitely out of time there too... I think someone on the animation team must have been a classic car junkie!

   Another thing that bothered me about Innocence... Togusa's mullet! The Japanese can't let it go! I didn't care for the character designs overall either.

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   Ann
   Key Master
   

   hookedonanime - 8 hours ago  » 

   Also, GITS v2.0 is a freaking waste (compared to the original).

   So I guess this is just like the Evangelion movie remake, re-doing the same thing digital? I smell money! :p

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   Jason Lee
   Member
   

   Haha regarding the mullet, Togusa = Japanese MacGyver. Funny though because in Innocence he looks white to me, but I think a lot of the characters are kinda mixed and not supposed to have specific Japanese traits, especially since they can pick and choose their cybernetic parts.

   I think it's funny between SAC 1 and 2 the costume changes for the Major. In 1 she wears a lot of different outfits and of course lacks pants a lot of the time. That doesn't seem like a normal thing even if she is a cyborg. But at least she doesn't go full nude to go into camo mode like in the first movie. I also found it funny that at the end of the first season when Batou goes to Motoko's safe house to retrieve her watch that she has an underwear drawer. In the 2nd Gig she's in a body suit most of the time.

   The tv show uses cell shaded cars which is kinda weird sometimes but not too bad. At least the cars are newer than in Innocence. Also, it's the only part of the series that is not the normal drawing style (not including beginning/end sequences). The 3D CG crap really sucks imo. For the most part it doesn't mesh well with the 2D drawing style. GITS 2.0 is just a digital remake of the first movie. Some scenes are completely redone in 3D CG and the helicopters are all 3D CG. Nothing is cut or added and dialogue stays the same although it was all re-recorded for digital. The score is redone in digital 6.1 too I think. But again, the 3D CG just looks completely out of place.

   I agree with you about Innocence. The Major is the best character and she's almost left out completely. The whole movie is too stylized. If it is like you said, a parallel time/story, it lacks proper body. If you watch the series and know the characters/story from that, the movie makes no sense. If you don't watch GITS, the movie really doesn't make sense.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   Ann
   Key Master
   

   Complete CG films don't work either, especially the people. I recently (in the last year or so) saw the second Appleseed movie and well, it was just awful! Lame story (I don't remember it), the most awful dialogue ever, completely expressionless CG characters, and not even enough action to make up for anything. It's like we haven't progressed since the Final Fantasy movie... what happened?

   I'm not a big fan of Masamune Shirow's move to incorporating CG in his still art either. Not only is it increasingly pornographic, but it also just looks weird mixed in like that. Same problems as when it happens in anime. The GITS volume 2 collection of the manga really sucks compared to the first.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   Jason Lee
   Member
   

   Ya, CG for objects is ok, but for people is just creepy. The Major looks like a weird silicone doll in the CG sequences of v2.0. I think it depends on who's doing the CG work and how they design it to look.

   So volume 1 of GITS manga is good but the 2 sucks? Is it not worth reading?

   edit:

   Some additional stuff...

   Here's a review I found for Innocence (among many others) that I think is pretty good.
   http://animeworld.com/reviews/ghostintheshell2.html

   I think in fairness, I should say that the 2D/3D work is much better than other work (i.e. v2.0 rework). The opening credit sequence is sweet (the android "birth") and the visuals are good...just not congruous to the tv storylines/characters. I think the main reason why I dislike it is because it's so different than the rest of GITS.

   With regards to the tv show, my favorite scene is from the first season when the Major is standing on top of the Navy armored suit blasting him with the hand canon.

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. 

   Colin
   Member
   

   Hi,
   I have been re-watching SAC as well and just re-watched Innocence. I actually think Innocence is an excellent movie, if not a slightly challenging one. In a way, it seems to be a nice book end to the original film in that it shows the evolution of the major and, to a greatest extent, profiles a future where man, machine, networks, and A.I. are all sort of blurring together...

   The hardest thing for me is how little we see of the Major (where as in SAC we see too MUCH of her... PUT SOME PANTS ON). But, when she does manifest as this sort of super hacker who can effortlessly control cyborg bodies, I almost want to cry because it so dope.

   The CG cars are weak and using 1950s models seems horribly out of place, but part of me thinks that is sort of a feasible scenario. They don't sound like internal combustion engines in many scenes, so the implications is that car lovers can update their old body styles with some kind of modern power plant and then rock the classic look whilst discussing what to feed their dog.

   I think it s good movie. It by no means an action film, but more of a truly hardcore sci-fi flick, somewhat akin to THX 1138. Give it another chance!

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. 

   Jason Lee
   Member
   

   I understand what you are saying. I concede that it is good in certain ways, just not what I was expecting. I think that's where my disappoint stems from ultimately. As a stand alone (heh) movie (or even paired with the first) it's ok, but I still think it's kinda off the path.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. 

   Bentoboxbobby
   Member
   

   Ann,

   How do you watch GITS, watch Street Fighter, do an online site, and play Street Fighter the same time? If I were in your shoes, I think I would have to bring my laptop to the movie theater or something, or have 2 computers. I can't do that.. I had to really watch anime without anything else happening. Hard to stay focused...

   TBC,
   Bobby ^^

   Posted 2 years ago #

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